BCV's on a cluster

Anyone out there using BCV with SQL 2000, ideally, or even SQL 2005? I've
got some questions and would like to speak with someone that's done it...
Many thanks, and Happy New Year!!
burt_king@.yahoo.com
"burt_king" <burt_king@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AAF8DC41-78F4-4E67-A339-03F1A409B5D5@.microsoft.com...
> Anyone out there using BCV with SQL 2000, ideally, or even SQL 2005? I've
> got some questions and would like to speak with someone that's done it...
> Many thanks, and Happy New Year!!
> --
> burt_king@.yahoo.com
What are you trying to do? Many people use BCVs to then run their reporting
off of them or to run the backups off of them. Some people use BCVs as a
form of DR, too.
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Denver starting Feb 12th
NYC starting Feb 19th
|||I'm not sure exactly what you meant by BCVs. But in the context of the EMC
SANs, BCV splits are commonly practiced and work fine. We often split BCVs on
our DR side, and check the BCV volumes to verify the databases on the DR side
and to test the procedures.
You can use BCVs for reporting. But in most of our cases, we need
near-real-time reports, and it's not practical to keep splitting and mounting
BCVs.
Linchi
"burt_king" wrote:

> Anyone out there using BCV with SQL 2000, ideally, or even SQL 2005? I've
> got some questions and would like to speak with someone that's done it...
> Many thanks, and Happy New Year!!
> --
> burt_king@.yahoo.com
>
|||To add to this, again in an EMC context.
BCV's are an exact copy of their sources, including the disk-signatrure
(sector 0)
Hence it is not recommended to present a split BCV to the cluster nodes, as
the signature is the same as the source disk which is under cluster control.
Presenting BCV's to another host outside the cluster ! ... no problem
HTH,
_Edwin.
"Linchi Shea" <LinchiShea@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7879E5CE-3247-4B65-BBD7-EE2620E5F9E9@.microsoft.com...
> I'm not sure exactly what you meant by BCVs. But in the context of the EMC
> SANs, BCV splits are commonly practiced and work fine. We often split BCVs
on
> our DR side, and check the BCV volumes to verify the databases on the DR
side
> and to test the procedures.
> You can use BCVs for reporting. But in most of our cases, we need
> near-real-time reports, and it's not practical to keep splitting and
mounting[vbcol=seagreen]
> BCVs.
> Linchi
> "burt_king" wrote:
I've[vbcol=seagreen]
it...[vbcol=seagreen]
|||Greetings, yes all, I'm speaking of EMC BCV's. We'd like to use them as we
do our Oracle databases but I don't think it's possible. With Oracle we put
tablespaces in hot backup mode, split off the BCV, run backups , control
files, force archive log switches and then for a database restore we can
restore the files and then apply logs.
My understanding of MSFT BCV use is that it's limited to quiescing the files
and then backing the files up. In a restore, for example, you'd restore the
BCV back and that's it. You cannot apply transaction logs.
Thoughts anyone? Whitepapers would be good too...
burt_king@.yahoo.com
"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "burt_king" <burt_king@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:AAF8DC41-78F4-4E67-A339-03F1A409B5D5@.microsoft.com...
> What are you trying to do? Many people use BCVs to then run their reporting
> off of them or to run the backups off of them. Some people use BCVs as a
> form of DR, too.
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Denver starting Feb 12th
> NYC starting Feb 19th
>
>
|||"burt_king" <burt_king@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:F2EAAB01-0AD2-4A44-8A6E-A61D0793EF94@.microsoft.com...
> Greetings, yes all, I'm speaking of EMC BCV's.
A BCV is a BCV.

> We'd like to use them as we
> do our Oracle databases but I don't think it's possible. With Oracle we
> put
> tablespaces in hot backup mode, split off the BCV, run backups , control
> files, force archive log switches and then for a database restore we can
> restore the files and then apply logs.
You can do the same in the Microsoft world.

> My understanding of MSFT BCV use is that it's limited to quiescing the
> files
> and then backing the files up.
A BCV is a BCV, unless I am totally out in left field. It is created by the
SAN, not the OS.

> In a restore, for example, you'd restore the
> BCV back and that's it. You cannot apply transaction logs.
Why not? It is the same thing as a backed up database.
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Denver starting Feb 12th
NYC starting Feb 19th
|||> > In a restore, for example, you'd restore the
> Why not? It is the same thing as a backed up database.
I have never used BCV as the starting point for a chain of log restores. Not
saying that it's not possible--I just don't know whether it's possible or
not. But since a BCV is split from the disk on which the database files
reside, it is in a state similar to that of the database files on the source
disk when the host is abruptly shut down. SQL Server can go through crash
recovery, when restarted, to bring the BCV into a transactionally consistent
state. But I'm not sure you can apply log backups to a BCV in that state.
For log restores, typically a database snapshot backup is taken, which does
require quiescing the database.
Again, I don't know whether some magic can be applied so that you can apply
log backups to a BCV. We have never done that, and I don't know anybody else
has done that.
Linchi
"Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:

> "burt_king" <burt_king@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:F2EAAB01-0AD2-4A44-8A6E-A61D0793EF94@.microsoft.com...
> A BCV is a BCV.
>
> You can do the same in the Microsoft world.
>
> A BCV is a BCV, unless I am totally out in left field. It is created by the
> SAN, not the OS.
>
> Why not? It is the same thing as a backed up database.
>
> --
> Russ Kaufmann
> MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
> ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
> Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
> Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
> The next ClusterHelp classes are:
> Denver starting Feb 12th
> NYC starting Feb 19th
>
>
|||To answer Russ' question, it cannot be used as part of a normal backup
strategy like Oracle because with oracle you run the alter tablespace backup
command which stops all writes to the file and all the action is kept in the
redo logs. In other words, it's just a file until the backup is done. With
SQL server, there's no such option. BCV's in the SQL Space involve running
the ioctrl (not sure I remember the correct name of the utility) which
quiesces all writes to the files, then split off the copy, then bring all the
files back on line.
In the event of a restore all the files are consistent to a point in time,
but you cannot apply logs to it. It is what it was at the moment of the snap.
burt_king@.yahoo.com
"Linchi Shea" wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> I have never used BCV as the starting point for a chain of log restores. Not
> saying that it's not possible--I just don't know whether it's possible or
> not. But since a BCV is split from the disk on which the database files
> reside, it is in a state similar to that of the database files on the source
> disk when the host is abruptly shut down. SQL Server can go through crash
> recovery, when restarted, to bring the BCV into a transactionally consistent
> state. But I'm not sure you can apply log backups to a BCV in that state.
> For log restores, typically a database snapshot backup is taken, which does
> require quiescing the database.
> Again, I don't know whether some magic can be applied so that you can apply
> log backups to a BCV. We have never done that, and I don't know anybody else
> has done that.
> Linchi
> "Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:
|||"burt_king" <burt_king@.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AEF1E9C7-509C-4B92-B464-09AAD31D52D5@.microsoft.com...
> To answer Russ' question, it cannot be used as part of a normal backup
> strategy like Oracle because with oracle you run the alter tablespace
> backup
> command which stops all writes to the file and all the action is kept in
> the
> redo logs. In other words, it's just a file until the backup is done.
> With
> SQL server, there's no such option. BCV's in the SQL Space involve
> running
> the ioctrl (not sure I remember the correct name of the utility) which
> quiesces all writes to the files, then split off the copy, then bring all
> the
> files back on line.
> In the event of a restore all the files are consistent to a point in time,
> but you cannot apply logs to it. It is what it was at the moment of the
> snap.
If the BCV contains all files that existed on the source disk, then it is
the same thing as a flat file backup. As such, it can certainly be used as a
DR mechanism. You certainly could restore to that point in time. If you had
access to the other log files and check point files, then you should also be
able to do a restore and play back the log files. I see no reason that this
would not work.
However, I will also state that I am not a SQL expert.
Russ Kaufmann
MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
ClusterHelp.com, a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner
Web http://www.clusterhelp.com
Blog http://msmvps.com/clusterhelp
The next ClusterHelp classes are:
Denver starting Feb 12th
NYC starting Feb 19th
|||Linchi,
If you are running EMC storage, please have a look at the Timefinder SQL
integration Module.
It can restore from BCV backup, mount the db, and all other tasks in order
to prepare for a log replay.
rgds,
Edwin.
"Linchi Shea" <LinchiShea@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5C661664-C828-4E14-B725-918A4D7A9EC1@.microsoft.com...
> Russ;
> Could you point me to any reference that indicates you can use a BCV as
the
> starting point to replay log backups? I don't think it would work. But
then[vbcol=seagreen]
> you never know.
> Linchi
> "Russ Kaufmann [MVP]" wrote:
in[vbcol=seagreen]
all[vbcol=seagreen]
time,[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
is[vbcol=seagreen]
as a[vbcol=seagreen]
had[vbcol=seagreen]
also be[vbcol=seagreen]
this[vbcol=seagreen]